| IB: |
Do you recall anything about Ernest Ranglin? |
| DH-S: |
I remember him coming along and blowing. He was terrific He was a wonderful guitar player, a real nice sweetie too. There was talk of asking him to join. But then it was decided it would change the sound too much. |
| IB: |
Do you know whatever happened to Ernest? |
| DH-S: |
No, I don´t but it would be a good idea if could be found again. I think his
playing would find some niches right now. |
| IB: |
Do you know who wrote "Waltz For A Pig"? |
| DH-S: |
Ginger |
| IB: |
Do you remember anything else about it? |
| DH-S: |
I've got a feeling that Ginger came into a deal with Robert Stigwood. I
think that was one way that Ginger got enough bread to leave and start setting
up something or other. |
| IB: |
What did you think of Graham's singing? |
| DH-S: |
Well, his actual voice quality wasn't particularly good but I loved the
way he used it, I always did. You could say the same thing about Sonny Boy
Wiliamson. |
| IB: |
Who came up with the repetitive riff that is a feature of both John
Mayall's "Open Up A New Door" and "Debut" by Colosseum? |
| DH-S: |
"Da-da-da-da-da/da/dat/da/da/da". Me! |
| IB: |
Chris Farlowe eventually joined to become lead vocalist of Colosseum but
Paul Williams was also suggested for the job. |
| DH-S: |
There was talk of that at one time. I would have liked that, from the
soul point of view. But I think it was felt that he might not be able to physically stand
the pace of touring. It is a pretty rigorous business, touring. |
| IB: |
Were there other candidates? |
| DH-S: |
Yes, there was a guy who who did actually sing pretty good. I can't
remember his name, but we took him on a short Danish tour. |
| IB: |
You once said in an article that Farlowe was controversial. What did you
mean by that? |
| DH-S: |
What I meant was that..... Chris´ public image had always been not so
much that of a blues singer or a jazz singer but that of a soul singer. For a
time, it surprised quite a lot of the audience that we should have, to be frank, a soul
singer fronting a sort of progressive jazz-rock unit. The thing was that Farlowe's
vocal proficiency is unique in the world. I don't think that there is anybody
who can do what he can do. It's astounding! And it'll be like that until the day
he dies and after that , there won't be anymore. |
| IB: |
Were the Dick Heckstall-Smith Band and Manchild one and the same group? |
| DH-S: |
Yes, affirmative. |
| IB: |
And now for the inevitable reunion questions. What do you think about
Colosseum reuniting? |
| DH-S: |
It´s a remote possibility. It depends on the band as a group of people,
accepting enough new material to make it a going proposition. I think that in
principle, everybody would like to do it if the material was something that we
really, really wanted to do. |
| PG: |
How did you choose the musicians that you would work with on "A Story Ended"? |
| DH-S: |
Well, (emphasis) it was a pretty long time ago! I had a lot of numbers
left over from the Colosseum days that hadn't quite fitted the band so we set about
organizing them. I used Pete Brown on the lyrics almost exclusively save for
two Jon Hiseman lyrics. Graham at the time was a bit battered. This goes back to
the last breaths of the GBO when we were musically living from hand to mouth. So
many musicians passed through the ranks after I left and that must imply that
he was having difficulties. I cut myself of from this and joined John Mayall. I
could see that Graham was unhappy, trying to stay alive and feed the various monkeys
on his back. Back to the LP though, he was very co-operative and enjoyed doing
it. We recorded at the Manor, Oxfordshire. At this time Graham had been to the
States and back. There was a period of writing and deciding on musicians. |
| PG: |
There is a remarkable roster of musicians on the record, Paul Williams,
Rob Tait, Caleb Quaye, Gordon Beck to name a few, did you choose these people for
their own distinctive qualities? |
| DH-S: |
Yes. What I intended to do was make an LP of my own compositions with a
single group. To that end I asked the drummer Rob Tait if he'd like to come in. It
would start off as just a recording group. I was a bit innocent back then and
didn't realize just what taking Rob on board would mean! He was extremely shy and
gentle, perhaps introverted. A fine drummer though, outstanding. It was hard to
reconcile his shyness with such ability. His drum style had an open rock feel that
he combined with jazz. His personality however was that he believed himself
incapable of playing on "A Pirates Dream". If you believe that you can't from
the outset then by God you will not do it! So, we dragged Hiseman out of the
recording box to do it. He protested but it was obvious Rob wasn't up for it. I
played with vocalist Paul Williams in the Mayall band. He was the only one who could
sing in such a natural way. He was similar in delivery to Ronnie Jones who sang
with Alexis. Paul had an excellent voice quality and feel. I've always gravitated
naturally to people who sang or play black. That's a musical description rather
than an ethnic one! Caleb Quaye, God knows whatever happened to him, when it
came to putting a group together he wasn't around. |
| PG: |
How did you work with Pete Brown in shaping the material? |
| DH-S: |
I took the music to him and he suggested how to organize it. Put this
bit here, maybe do this bit twice to fit the words or something. We ended up with
a song on the first side, "Future Song", that I think must have been a bit weird
to sing! The words were very good. Also "Moses In The Bullrushours" which I think
is one of the best ever. At the time I wasn't so sure about it. I never sat down
to ask questions. I just did what I liked doing. I believe that, it's an all time classic now! I
never thought about the politics of who's doing what in what, I just asked people
for the things that I wanted to hear and they said yes or no. |
| PG: |
The records showcase must be "The Pirates Dream", a remarkable demonstration of instrumental prowess by anybodies standards. How difficult was this to construct and achieve? |
| DH-S: |
Me and Clem Clempson had the musical ideas but we had to low horizons
when compared to Jon Hiseman. He would listen to our work, say I had produced
the riff and Clempson would embellish it, we'd extend this and honestly felt
that we had ground breaking ideas about what to do in the different sections and
how to create new sections, new moods etc. but we were much more prone to be
satisfied with a piece of work that we thought good, than Hiseman. He wouldn't
actually reject anything, he'd just say it's not enough, we need to do more. I'd say
for Gods sake how can we? Don't you think that it's going to be too long and
top heavy? He would just say, "We have to make sure that it isn't". So it was very
much Jon's perseverance that pushed it into such a mammoth shape. It was an
enormous vision that has to be given credit. It wouldn't have happened without
cooperation from everybody and it's probably the mix of musicians that
created something so distinctive. |
| PG: |
What was Graham´s input on this one? |
| DH-S: |
He played most of the complicated bits that sound like a guitar but are
in fact synth and Moog. The way he achieved this, and it was a complicated
process, was by slowing the tape down to half speed and running through it bar
by bar, an octave down. Then we would put it back to the original speed to see
if it worked. It wasn't exactly what I wanted but all of the notes were there at
least. |
| PG: |
I had noticed that some passages it does fluctuate in speed but this just
seemed an incidental to me in the way it was played. |
| DH-S: |
It is exactly because of slowing it down to work on. |
| PG: |
Surely this must have made it a difficult piece to bring off live. How
many times did Colosseum perform this? |
| DH-S: |
A few times with Colosseum but never as good as with my own band,
Manchild. You should hear one of the live performances with that one. The
playing is just incredible, it just goes on and on. We did it exact, live for
13 minutes. No changing or re-arranging! |
| PG: |
Did you make any money out of the LP? |
| DH-S: |
No. We probably got paid for doing the sessions. That was about it! |
| PG: |
When did you start playing two horns at once? |
| DH-S: |
I think between summer of ´63 and summer ´65. Now I think that I was
challenged to do it as a gimmick for Ginger Baker. Ginger was keen on us having
gimmicks. Undoubtedly Roland Kirk was beginning to get a reputation at around
the same time. I dismissed the idea at first but then had a go, it was rather interesting! |
| PG: |
How difficult is this technically? |
| DH-S: |
It's just natural. You don't work towards it. The only thing that you
have to work at is getting them in tune. Depending on which two you use. In the
case of the tenor and soprano they are an octave apart. You are obviously
restricted by having one hand for each. This can take a little of getting used to but
it's not insurmountable. Once you can handle one then why not try two. I'm surprised
that more people don't do it. Seems an obvious extension to me! You get a nice
noise, very interesting. |
| PG: |
You actually played alongside Roland Kirk. What are your recollection of
this? |
| DH-S: |
You want to see it? I have it on video. He was very pissed off that
there was somebody else on the stage who could play more than one horn at once. I
think that he had heard about me because by the time that I came on he was
bristling! We were standing next to each other swapping fours or something and
he lent over saying "You're out of tune man!" I didn't answer him because of
course I was out of tune but then so was he! (laughs). |
| PG: |
There is no description of the bonus tracks found on the CD issue of "A
Story Ended"? Can you tell us the line up of the band relating to these?
|
| DH-S: |
The drummer was an 18 year old - Theodore Thunder, now based in the
States. The keyboard player was Dave Rose who now lives in Kingston. On bass
was Billy Smith and on guitar, James Litherland. |
| MC: |
Can you please tell us a bit about your upcoming CD? I hear Jack and Ginger are both involved. |
|
DH-S: |
I wish Ginger was but he can't do it because he had an accident a few months ago with a
number of horses owned by him and the result is that he can't play for more than five or ten minutes at the moment. I hope he will be well later but
that's the reason he's not on the album. |
| MC: |
But Jack? |
| DH-S: |
Jack certainly is, oh yeah he was the first thing we did. |
| MC: |
And what's the working title? |
| DH-S: |
It's working title is, I don't think that's gonna be changed, I think it
will stay; "Blues & Beyond". And there's a lot of suggestions for the subtitle.
The American market would probably fall for something like "The Godfather Of
British Blues" (laughing). The concept with godfather is so American but.....ok
.....alright. |
| MC: |
There you go. And the background to how it came together. Wha'´s the
record company? |
| DH-S: |
Blue Stone. A vigorous, pushing, independent company in America
which Pete has done all the dealings with through the years. And I think
they're great. Terrific. They're a medium sized company with lot of energy. And a good
access to distribution. We're very optimistic so we're hoping to not get lost. |
| MC: |
And other stellar names are Mick Taylor for sure, Peter Green obviously
and John Mayall. |
| DH-S: |
Oh and Paul Jones. Clem Clempson is present on almost every track cos
he's my mate from Colosseum from way back. And we've got the most astounding new singer and guitar player - Rab McCullough from Northern Ireland. He's so ridiculously good, so good you die. I promise you a whole routine of heart attacks when you hear him! He's something else. |
| MC: |
And the release date? |
| DH-S: |
Well, we were aiming for end of April/early May, but I think due to the
politics of touring and promoting the album it's not be that quick. It'll be
probably out in June. |
| MC: |
An European tour basically? |
| DH-S: |
There will be an European tour and I'm desperate to do some stuff in
America. Really want to do that. That band is gonna be fantastic.
|
| MC: |
The name of the band members..... |
| DH-S: |
OK. Well, I´ll start from the bottom. The bass is David Hadley. The
drummer is on all but one track, Gary Husband. On one track it's Jon Hiseman.
Keyboards is, (when there are keyboards, mostly the album is designed not to
use keyboards) Dave Moore. The ideal thing for me is to have two guitar
players playing. And Rab being the singer and also guitar player - wild, wild guitar
player. His voice and guitar playing is so..... dirty is the word. If and when
I go on tour it will be those. It'll be David and Gary and the two guitar players,
Clem and Rab. |
| MC: |
Both of them? |
| DH-S: |
Oh yeah, absolutely. And me. That's the size about it really. |
| MC: |
What do you think about "The Kettle" sample featured on Fat Boy Slim's
recent CD? |
| DH-S: |
Well, I love to hear it (laugh). What's the CD called? If I knew the
name of the album I go out and buy it. But I'm more than delighted of course. That
sort of the previous millennium. You know that one was done in 1969 for Christ sake. |
| MC: |
So you're flattered? |
| DH-S: |
Yeah, I'm well pleased. Because I mean, I have to say the thing about it
is that it does not have a saxophone. I did not write it for a saxophone. You
couldn't use a saxophone on it. I wrote that number entirely for drums, bass,
and guitar and a singer - a singing guitar player. That was what I wrote it
for. I did not want to play the saxophone. I was a writer. And that was my first sort of
serious attempt, my first entry into composition. Cos I do that quite a lot. I
like to compose music that I'm not gonna play on. Cos I can hear things in my head
that I can't do on my saxophone. |
| MC: |
Did Graham ever play the organ when in the Blues Incorporated or the
Johnny Burch Octet? |
| DH-S: |
Yes, whenever he played. Well, that's not quite true. Graham was a multi
instrumentalist and some of the gigs we did, especially the Johnny Burch Octet,
Graham had no opportunity to play the organ because John Burch was the only
keyboard player. And the Octet was definitely a jazz set up. Graham played
organ with Blues Incorporated, and as I think it says in my book, in the end
of 1962, the early part of 1963 the Blues Incorporated gigs always featured a short, between 15-25 minutes, organ trio set. Graham playing organ and singing with Jack and Ginger. That was part of the set up in the gigs whole the way through. I
have a great visual memory of that little group on stage downstairs at the Flamingo 2 o'clock in the morning. |
| MC: |
When did you become aware of John McLaughlin? |
| DH-S: |
The very first time I heard him was when I started doing gigs at the Flamingo in Wardour Street. He was with Georgie Fame and the Blue
Flames. |
| MC: |
And your impression of him at the time? |
| DH-S: |
Well I mean, the kid was 18. And I'm coming down the stairs into this
venue which was absolutely packed with black American servicemen. You
wouldn't find a white there. They were there because of what the music was
- Georgie and the Blue Flames. And one of the part of the Blue Flames was the
guitar player and the guitar player was - I mean it astounds me how people
those days didn't know how good John was. It was as somebody had to tell him - it
was absurd. First time I walked down the stairs there and I heard this going on -
this guitar stuff John was playing those days when he 18 - was absolutely lifted by
the boots and it would turn you into some another creature straight away. For
me that happened every time from that second. First time I heard him onwards I
new John was the best guitar player in the world. I knew that from the first
time I heard him. It was something about John that was utterly unique. I knew that
first time I heard him and I was amazed people didn't know. |
| MC: |
Am I right in saying that although McLaughlin was not a member of the
Johnny Burch Octet, he occasionally sat in with the group when they were on
the same bill as the Graham Bond Quartet? |
| DH-S: |
Am not aware of that. I don't think there were any guitar players that
did that. If they were, they was on Octet gigs that I didn't make because I was
doing something else. |
| MC: |
At the time McLauglin played at the Flamingo did he sit in with either
Alexis´ band or Bond's trio? |
| DH-S: |
To my recollection no. I think he only ever played with the Blue Flames
until Jack and Ginger asked him to join them in the Graham Bond Trio. |
| MC: |
The Graham Bond Quartet with John McLaughlin on board regularly
backed Duffy Power. Were the Quartet still involved with Power at the time you
joined? |
| DH-S: |
I'm vague about that. I really don't know. I certainly remember Duffy
Power in the Flamingo, but there's a memory of Duffy Power and not a memory
of the make up of the band. |
| MC: |
In January 1965 the GBO went on a package tour with Chuck Berry. Any
memories about that? |
| DH-S: |
I certainly remember the Chuck Berry tour. I do have a memory of a gig
in Glasgow where I found myself on stage announcing myself, don't know how
that came about because I never used to talk, but I remember announcing to the
audience in this big auditorium that I was gonna play two saxophones
simultaneously. Or it could be announcing Graham playing alto and organ
simultaneously. But I can remember saying "simultaneously" to the audience.
thinking this was a bit revolutionary thing to do. |